Montana Plane Crash Reveals Xians' True Colors
To all the "modern" christians who insist that their enlightened, "rational" faith should not be confused with freakazoid insanity, this is the Christian reality that you're going to have to destroy if you expect anyone to believe your claims of humanity.
PZ Myers on "a heartless faith:"
There was an appalling and tragic plane crash in Montana: 14 people were killed, 7 of them children.
SNIP
Nine of them were members of one family. This was a horrifying and genuinely horrible accident; I can't begin to imagine the grief felt by the survivors, who lost children and grandchildren.
I can feel great anger, though. Here is something that will make you furious and outraged, too. Irving Feldkamp is the father of two and grandfather of five who were killed in that accident; he lost a shocking great swath of his family in that one sad afternoon. Irving Feldkamp is also the owner of Family Planning Associates — a chain of clinics that also does abortions.
You can guess what segment of the Christian community I'm about to highlight.
Choke back your gag reflex and read this hideous, evil article on Christian Newswire. Some moral cretin named Gingi Edmonds wrote a wretched story on this tragedy that makes it sound like divine retribution on Mr Feldkamp.
It begins by telling us that the plane crashed in a cemetery — a Catholic cemetery that has a "memorial to the unborn", dedicated to aborted fetuses. We are apparently supposed to feel some sense of irony at this.
All I can feel is horror at the kinds of monsters who would find grim satisfaction in the death of 6 to 10 year old children, as if it were payback for abortion. At amoral pious hypocrites who would regard this as an opportunity to assault human beings broken-hearted by pain and loss, to proselytize for the bloody-handed god of their death cult, to compound agony with accusations of guilt. There is no humanity left in these sanctimonious creatures, it's been bled out and replaced with fanaticism and dogma.
SNIP
Once again, I am confirmed in my opinion that Christianity is a breeder of evil, a cesspit in which the most hateful and inhuman commitment to lies and delusions can ferment. Don't ever preach at me about Christian morality: I've seen it, and it is empty of love for humanity, replaced with sanctimonious idolatry and commitment to dead, dumb superstition.
Again, with enthusiasm:
Christianity is a breeder of evil, a cesspit in which the most hateful and inhuman commitment to lies and delusions can ferment. Don't ever preach at me about Christian morality: I've seen it, and it is empty of love for humanity, replaced with sanctimonious idolatry and commitment to dead, dumb superstition.
And no, the other monotheisms are no better.
Cross-posted at They Gave Us A Republic ....
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13 comments:
Let's face it. Physics explains all that religion does ... without the guilt and shame of incompetent faith. I believe it begins, "If you believe, it will happen. If your belief is strong enough ... ".
The ultimate reality is that random counts. Nothing happens because ... and there is no meaning to be devined from a disaster; it had no meaning or intent. A disaster is a serendipitous amalgam of natural forces that concentraed geographically, naturally and isochronically to maximize impact.
Wow...
The one thing you cite from her is ironic. (See also: if Dick Cheney crashed into a peace museum or Blackwater headquarters.) But some of her other comments are regrettable.
(To others: You have to follow the link in the post to read the comments that are offensive. In this post, we see Myers' conclusion but not the evidence.)
It's interesting to see Myers put this at the feet of Christianity as if it's special in this regard. For one thing, self-proclaimed Christians can easily deviate from Christianity. For another, if one looks at the evidence, atheism has caused far more evil, hate, lies, and delusion. (And it's interesting that Myers focuses only on the ill done with affiliations to Christianity.)
Finally, the atheist has his faiths as well-- in particular, interesting beliefs about the origins and development of life. And interestingly, quantum physics points to the (great) possibility of intervention in our universe.
Yellow Dog, I admire your passion and heart and sense of fair play and justice. But I do not share in your blanket condemnation of Christianity or its adherents. I believe you are allowing the hypocrisies of the intolerant religious right (their support of our war machine, their apparent hatred of gays, their neglect of the poor to support the wealthy and the status quo, the willingness of some of them to even murder abortion doctors in the name of supporting the unborn, etc.)to cloud your vision on this. Keep in mind that a very large number of charity workers and idealistic, good hearted activists (Martin Luther King, Jr. was one) are glad to call themselves Christian, because they are the ones actually practicing Christianity's true tenets. They use the true teachings of Jesus, those involving love, charity, and forgiveness, to inspire them to do a lifetime of good works (Mother Teresa is a good example of this). I share your disdain for those cold-hearted segments of the body whose practices include being self-appointed enforcers, police, judges, juries, wardens, and executioners of what they believe to be Christianity. They are being unjustly insensitive. They are not authentic and are actually hurting their cause. But a broad-based attack on the faith itself like I see in today's post is, I believe, unjust and not accurate either. Nonetheless, it is a free country and God Himself has given us free will, so you are within your rights to express yourself as you like on this. I just hope in the future there will be a little more realization of, and consideration shown for, those who aren't practitioners of Christianity the religious right way.
Mean while:
The Pope says condoms are making the spread of HIV worse.......
Jack - naaah, I don't think so.
The ones who are not evil-minded like the description are weak-minded and easily led and lacking in personal power. In fact, to my experience, the whole concept of personal power is considered anathema in Christianity.
I'm an agnostic, just in case. But what I really believe is that there is no such thing as God or anything like him. That, as someone recently said, "Physics explains all that religion does, without the guilt and shame of incompetent faith."
Frankly, I think the fact that George W Bush was president for the past 8 years is one of the surest proofs that there is no god. We're on our own. And most of the time I find that knowledge a comfort.
Other times, I wish I DID have a deity to rely on. It's easier, or at least I think it would be, than counting on your own resources.
I'm going to sign this anonymously, not because I don't have the courage of my convictions, but because I just simply don't want to listen to/read crap like Jack Jodell wrote. It gives me agita. He can write it if he wants, but I don't want it aimed at me.
I see evidence of intolerance coming from the left as well as the religious right. I recognize and have acknowledged the right of all to believe or not believe as they wish. That can hardly be regarded as "crap", as I was making no attempt whatsoever to coerce or convert anyone to Christianity, nor was I attempting to preach. I hope I never grow as cynical, angry, or bitter as some of what I have read here today. Good afternoon.
Eric:
Point by point with conclusion!
Wow...
The one thing you cite from her is ironic. (See also: if Dick Cheney crashed into a peace museum or Blackwater headquarters.) But some of her other comments are regrettable. Will you explain this, please? I don't doubt it makes sense, but I can't make the cognitive leap you completed.
(To others: You have to follow the link in the post to read the comments that are offensive.
In this post, we see Myers' conclusion but not the evidence.)
It's interesting to see Myers put this at the feet of Christianity as if it's special in this regard. For one thing, self-proclaimed Christians can easily deviate from Christianity. For another, if one looks at the evidence, atheism has caused far more evil, hate, lies, and delusion. (And it's interesting that Myers focuses only on the ill done with affiliations to Christianity.) This is the weakness encountered in defense of the indefensible. If one is not self-proclaimed, one is not a christian. By definition and construction, a christian is so by belief, not by practice. Practices in religions is held askance by true believers, and is not defended as consistent with belief - practices are identified as behavioral rites relevant to individual denominations: Methodist, Baptist, etc. Whereas [my favorite citation], Jews are so by practice. The path to salvation is following the law of the Torah. In contrast the bible is only offhandedly concerned with a nebulous phrase - good works. I consequently admit I know nothing of: Mormon, Muslim, Islam, Shinto, Bhudda, Dao
Finally, the atheist has his faiths as well-- in particular, interesting beliefs about the origins and development of life. And interestingly, quantum physics points to the (great) possibility of intervention in our universe. Attacking atheism doesn't require a cessation of belief. As an atheist, one merely refuses the concept of a god, monotheistic, omnipresent and omniscient - worshipfully. One is free to explore the issue of belief without religious fervor bending the warp of reality. Agnosticism does put belief to the test.
Only in the imagination of the fervid believer who has limited use for world reality does Quantum Mechanics "point to the (great) possibility of intervention" in the universe. The concept of intervention is basal to self-proclaimed and self-identified believers, because reality is too tenuous to be believed. Their character is so mild and insecure that purpose is their narcotic - just as Engels proclaimed, "religion is the opiate (narcotic) of the masses."
It is my inelegant and intentionally caustic observation that christianity is popular with idiots because they're too stoo-ped to pass a continuum of natural sciences that explains all of religious superstition that has outlived the dark ages. The damage to religion is that it hasn't changed since the dark ages and is therefore a product of the dark ages. Our hominid ancestors were as superstitious as can be imagined. The bible was written to explain realities that weren't understood. Acts were attrributed to miracles, rather than science; some acts were invented to support otherwise unattributable behaviors or stories. As Hitler & Bush have shown us - that if we let lies be repeated enough, they become a form of reality, but a form without truth. So fundamentalist christians, at the bare minimum of numbers, are those who can't pass a full course of natural science.
The irony of an abortionist landing in a cemetery devoted to unborn babies seems akin to Cheney promoting war and dying by crashing into something connected to war or peace.
One can be saved by Christ without self-proclaiming as a Christian.
The relationship between faith and practice in Christianity is more complicated than that. Christians are saved by faith not works. But a saving faith will result in good works. ("Good works" are not causal with salvation, but are correlated.) In James and John's epistles, the question is often raised: if the fruit is not there, you (and those close to you) should be asking whether you have a saving faith or not! Or as C.S. Lewis describes it, separating good works and faith is like separating violin and bow-- or the two parts of a pair of scissors.
Atheists may not have faith in the divine. But they have considerable faith about the origins and development of life, leaping from the limited available evidences to (reasoned?) inferences.
Quantum physics clearly opens a door. It certainly does not provide a proof for the existence of God. But it certainly provides plenty of room for God to move-- outside of the claims and narrow claims of the materialist.
How do you explain Christians who aren't idiots?
The irony of an abortionist landing in a cemetery devoted to unborn babies seems akin to Cheney promoting war and dying by crashing into something connected to war or peace.
Eric, it's random; that's all anything ever is --- random.
One can be saved by Christ without self-proclaiming as a Christian.
Not if my greatgrandfather, the Bishop of Alabama ('Pisco') knew his theology. Have to believe to be saved, otherwise there would be too many heathens who behaved well out of humane compassion taking up room that would be otherwise devoted to Bush(43), Cheney, Hitler, Rasputin, Nicholas II, Henry VIII, Machiavelli, Mengele and Eichemann.
The relationship between faith and practice in Christianity is more complicated than that. Christians are saved by faith not works. But a saving faith will result in good works. ("Good works" are not causal with salvation, but are correlated.) In James and John's epistles, the question is often raised: if the fruit is not there, you (and those close to you) should be asking whether you have a saving faith or not! Or as C.S. Lewis describes it, separating good works and faith is like separating violin and bow-- or the two parts of a pair of scissors.
Now I can see how you can juxtapose Quantum & creation. Doesn't make it congruent. I don't see how I can explain Physics to an entity that believes up is down. Your belief system precludes learning beyond youir comfort zone and you will forever retreat.
Atheists may not have faith in the divine. But they have considerable faith about the origins and development of life, leaping from the limited available evidences to (reasoned?) inferences.
At no time do I speak for others - I may quote another - but the origin of species is not subject to a test of faith except in the community of faith and the community of faith that denies the absolute efficacy of science. Science reigns.
Quantum physics clearly opens a door. It certainly does not provide a proof for the existence of God. But it certainly provides plenty of room for God to move-- outside of the claims and narrow claims of the materialist.
God exists only in the imagination of believers. God can't be recalled, displayed, defined or disputed. God is absolute. Physics is god in the presence of a scientist.
How do you explain Christians who aren't idiots? Same way I explain idiots who aren't christians. oooops! That's a non-sequiteur. Idiocy and christianity are not congruent. The analogy concurrent to your thinking is since it's raining outside and since it wasn't noticed until the door was opened, opening the door caused the rain. It's as likely as not that christians who aren't idiots haven't gotten a "B" in Physics and are on auto-pilot due to unconquerable stress elsewhere in their lives and haven't yet the courage to 'let go'. Nothing wrong with that. But also they aren't running around pounding sand in eveyone else's lives.
Two final thoughts: 1.Of all that read this exchange - how many minds will embrace either of the diametric points expressed here? Who cares? You do because your religion expects it and you to do so. I don't; all who experience this exchange see the expressed agenda in your argument and see also that there is none in mine. 2. Can your faith provide purple when blue & green are mixed? Can your faith levitate a building? Can faith alone halt a speeding train? Can your faith define the line at which devine intervention begins and on what basis?
Get back to me later!
I could be wrong, but I don't think irony has anything to do with whether something is random or not. It's a shame that you're missing out on all the fun ironies in the world! Relax and enjoy life a little more!
I'd recommend that you think and read for yourself on your theology, rather than relying on your great-grandpa. C.S. Lewis said we're all theologians; the only question is whether we're a good or bad theologian.
On quantum physics, you might want to read a renowned evolutionist, Kenneth Miller-- who makes the case in Finding Darwin's God. (I have blogged extensively on this if people want to check it out.)
Atheists cannot lay out anything close to a complete "explanation" for the origins and development of life. (A story, yes; an explanation, nope.) By definition, they must leap from limited evidence to inferences. This leap requires "faith"-- or some like term, for those allergic to the term faith.
You're buying into the bullshit.
Oh, I don't deny the Reich-Wing machine calls itself 'Christian'. Myself, I won't let the Satanists have a free unopposed hand with that label.
What's going on isn't so mysterious or unprecedented either. I just happen to recall a morality play about the temple whipping up hate to kill a teacher who taught tolerance.
My usual recourse : info
I have a hate on for disinformation and brainwashing - and the links work !
http://my.opera.com/oldephartte/links/
Documents - Christianity in Nazi Germany
Overton Window -
How shock jocks inspire hated and anger
Islamophobia and the coming wars
Religion -
Principle tenets of Protestant Christianity ( historical note : Protestant refers to pushback to the international power of Rome )
With your blanket rejection of Christianity, I believe your post is instructive. It's not hard to dismiss the emotional reaction of painting everyone in a religion, or the religion itself, with the same broad brush. But we in our Church embrace the story of the conversion of the spiritual leader Charles Wesley through the unselfish caring of Morovian Christians during a serious illness. Is it less sensible to reject a faith because of a loathsome attitude of an adherent?
At worship, we join our pastor in prayer before each sermon. He asks the Lord to allow the Word to be received despite the sin and contradiction in his life. In my own life, I doubt that I could gloat over the death of a child. But I am quite capable of other very crummy things. I am trying to pray more. I pray to be helped to live a better way.
Finally, fervently, I pray that others may be gifted to look beyond my human frailty to a powerful, transformative message.
Thank you for your post, and most especially the instruction that comes from your anger.
Every Christian should read it.
Some here are taking offense at what was written about fundamentalist, punative christianity. If any think this appellation applies, you are welcome to take offense at constructive criticism of your collective destructive character(istic).
None of us in dispute with religion hate religion, we just don't trust it to be responsive to human conditions and to adopt humane, as opposed to spiritual, solutions to earthly problems.
It's the religionists who hate us.
I would never consider picking on Luther, Wessley, Archbishop of Canterbury or any other leader of a spiritual movement that eschewed violence or punishing members of other religious movements that disagreed with them. So all you protectors of Dr.Land & Pope Benny, get out your knives and get in line. The line forms at the rear; I will deal with the one at the front, because only one of you can deal with me at one time. After you work your way to the front be prepared to get your hat handed you on a platter. Interrogating all prisoners and leaving no witnesses. Brutal is the order of the day.
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