Monday, June 1, 2009

The Wages of Compromise

Media Czech points us to Amanda Marcotte's great post on the problem with seeking common ground on abortion.

... this assassination needs to be a wake-up call to the William Saletans of the world, and also to Barack Obama---"common ground” is a pipe dream. A great deal of people want to believe that we can somehow come together to agree that abortion is unfortunate and the rate needs to be reduced (even though we can’t talk about how anti-choicers will fight you on any attempts to use contraception and education to actually accomplish this goal), and they hope this will at least temper the abortion debate.

This belief is predicated on a bunch of false assumptions that this assassination should expose, the number one being that we can blame both sides equally for how contentious this debate is. That’s utter bullshit, of course, since only one side stands by the use of force to change individual choices.

SNIP

(The problems with the common ground strategy) The big one is that it compromises the moral high ground that the pro-choice side has, and our moral integrity.

SNIP

While the anti-choice protesters enjoy how their anger scares women seeking abortion services, Dr. Tiller braved the ongoing threat of violence to save lives. We really shouldn’t even concede the ground of calling anti-choicers “pro-life”. They aren’t pro-life. Pro-choicers are the ones who are pro-life. We believe in the value of women’s lives, and we fight for this against a sexist society that treats women’s lives as lesser.

Unfortunately, we do Dr. Tiller and every doctor who provides abortion a disservice when we talk about abortion as a tragedy. It’s obvious that the proper word for an abortion provider is “hero"---someone who risks very real dangers because they feel they have a moral duty to support women’s right to live our lives with dignity and purpose. If we have to avoid saying this to avoid hurting the fee-fees of anti-choicers to get them to talk about “common ground”, then fuck it.

Read the whole thing.

Personally, I think the pro-choice movement lost the fight when it backed away from "abortions on demand." It's been surrendering the high ground ever since. No, not any abortion a woman wants, just the really necessary ones. And just if she listens to a condescending lecture first, then takes another day to think about it. and just if a judge decides the father who raped her is really a threat to a pregnant 11-year-old.

Because, as Anthony Kennedy made clear in the most recent misogynistic Supreme Court decision, women are just wombs, not sentient human beings who can be trusted to make decisions about their own bodies.

Time to bring back abortion on demand, and start calling out the anti-choicers for the women-hating, anti-American, freakazoid, motherfucking terrorists they are.

The Rude Pundit has some excellent suggestions about treating Tiller's killer like the terrorist he is, but Hilzoy explains how fighting the anti-choicers doesn't mean stooping to their terrorist tactics:

The law is not "powerless" in this case. It is not trying and failing to prevent abortion. On the contrary: our Constitution, as presently interpreted, grants women the right to seek an abortion. In order to conclude that killing people is justified in these circumstances, you need to think not just that the lives of innocents are at stake, but that this is the kind of situation in which you should take the law into your own hands, and thereby undermine our system of law and government.

I do not think that it would be OK for people who oppose the death penalty to kill the people who carry it out. I opposed the war in Iraq, but I did not conclude that it would be OK for me to kill soldiers who were shipping out, policy makers with blood on their hands, and so forth. In that case, many more innocent lives were at stake than could possibly have been at stake in Tiller's.

Deciding to start killing people who are doing things that are legal is deciding to go into full-scale revolt against one's government. There are surely times when it is right to do that, the Nazis being one obvious example. But the question when one ought to do so is a lot more difficult than McArdle makes it out to be, since a basically workable system of laws is a very great good, and it's a lot easier to destroy than it is to create.

Read the whole thing.

Cross-posted at They Gave Us A Republic ....

10 comments:

Eric Schansberg said...

That's a good point. If you really believe in abortion, then why compromise? If abortion is right and good (or at least a tolerably bad choice), it should be "abortion on demand". So, even though I disagree with you, I appreciate your honesty and passion here.

A similar compromise exists on the other side. If abortion results in the death of an unborn child, then why would one allow for exceptions based on rape or incest?

These compromises are political not moral considerations.

BimBeau said...

Yo Eric!!!!!!!!!!

NO ONE believes in abortion. Demand or 'on demand' has to do with any right. If rights are means tested or conditioned, they cease to be rights - by definition.

Unfortunately for your argument, it is black letter that it is a fetus, not a child. If you wish to argue the point of whether or not it's a child, this is the wrong (morally) venue. We don't argue points that are set in law.

Choice is the law of the land. If you wish to live where choices are restricted, I can recommend Russia, vodka is great; restrictions abound and the Republican't attitude of wealthy is healthy prevails. Lots of black limos whiz around town and the oligarchs run everything with an ironhand. They'll love you: with your idyllic desire for extending restrictions to other people while assuring yourself they don't apply to you. After all it's only political!
.

Eric Schansberg said...

I wasn't arguing; I was agreeing. If X, then Y; if A, then B. Why should either side compromise?

Of course, legality is practically important. But morality and legality are not always the same, yes? (You're a self-styled progressive, right?)

As for the "idyllic desire for extending restrictions to other people", I'm guessing that you're much more fond of such things than I am!

BimBeau said...

Eric -

I'd love to sit down to play poker with you. With you betting record here, I'd have your shirt & shorts by the end of the third hand.

You're the contol Freaque.

Eric Schansberg said...

I don't remember any bets, so I'm not sure about all that...maybe that's part of your skillful bluffing skills? ;-)

I'm a Libertarian-- and you probably want the govt involved in a lot of economics (not sure what you think about nuclear energy, the FDA, taxes on fast food, caps on political donations, "gun control", and a range of other control issues)-- so I'd bet that you'd "trump" my control Freaquishness well before the third hand.

Would I win that bet? ;-)

BimBeau said...

When you're 'guessing' you're either betting or folding. Libertarian is a still a conservative. Conservative isn't reactionary.

As for the rights in the Declaration, Constitution, Bill & Amendments - 'gun' control is a recent phenomenon. The Second was intended by the framers as a right to defend our shores by serving in the militia, either on land or at sea. The construction currently favored arose from Roosevelt's NewDeal and the packed Court he organized.
The other amendments are also under constant threat from reactionaries not conservatives. By definition, conservatives resist change; reactionaries wish to return to an earlier version of an imagined reality - which, actually probably, never existed.

When essayists and their fellow travellers begin argueing for restricting rights of others, I get nasty: like John Kay put it - "Evil, wicked, mean & nasty".

Rights are never to be subjected to:
amelioration
restriction
qualification
means testing
profiling, racial, ethnic, religious (take that RC priests)
taxation
nor
expenditure.

Eric Schansberg said...

By those terms, then I'm a bettin' man on this thread!

Conservatives-- and most self-styled progressives, to a large extent-- want the status quo. Libs cannot be considered conservative in any meaningful sense of the word. Legalize drugs, abolish the minimum wage, Constitutional levels of federal governance, etc. Those are rarely-held and "radical" positions.

In any case, the bottom line was not addressed by the rest of your narrow response about the 2nd Amendment: Are you a bigger control freaq than me on economics and other arenas?

C'mon...I gotta know if I won "the bet"!

BimBeau said...

Libertarians fall short as politicians. You side with Republicans who couldn't solve a problem without destroying someone's rights or being bullies. You side with them because you are:
1. misguided
2. individually centered rather than community centered
3. This ads up to being selfish
4. Honor property and wealth more than you prize humanity
5. Due to lack of real world experience would rather be dead than change - changing requires commitment.

Basically you fail to commit to enough government to be effective; commitment requires adherence to the objective rather than your pervasive protocol - self-worship at any cost to others. It all comes down to how much you-all can shift onto everyone else. You guys can't take responsibility for anything except complaining.

Since there'll never be enough of you to matter, you don't matter - politically. As individuals, in a democratic republic dominated by the Democratic Party, you have a seat at the table. The same voice as everyone else, but not more than anyone.

Government levels the playing field so all have the same opportunity, and that is what really galls all you Libertarians. With your religious trappings and other talismans of superstition, and your reliance upon your percieved social, intellectual and even physical superiority and petty inheritances - it's just SO unjust that a liberal who enjoys paying taxes, brags about being drafted, earns more money, accumulates more wealth and rejects the premise of superiority - does so while thumbing its nose at those values you-all hold hallow.

The greater level of regulation, the more moral the profits from arbitrage transactions. Come to think of it all the currency I have has United States of America on it, not my name. Monetary policy is made by governments. The problem: they who are wealthy have formed a self replicating revolving roster of white faces who make the policy to profit each other. It's time to make policy that benefits day laborers first and the wealthy - maybe later. More regulation of equities is also appropriate. If government can do it - after bush, government should do it at least until all the crooks have been smoked out of the walls and computer chips.

Libertarians gotta get over it. There is no god. All the arguments in support of its existance have no basis in fact --- only fantasy and fiction. You guys may believe and worship all you wish, but to use religion as a basis for law is an unwarranted intrusion into our rights. Since there is no god, and your right to believe and worship is unrestricted, laws and statutes designed by non-belivers are superiior.

I recognize that you will emotionally reject my argument. That's Okay with me. Your rejection is my affirmation.

Government is good.
Religion is ineffective & disruptive.
Individuals are subordinate to community.
Taxes are as good as the government that levies and collects them.
Tax & spend is good.
Wealthy pay more; that's fair.
Borrow & spend is immoral.

I think you're gonna have to get used to it. 40 years of Democratic hegemony. Get liberal or be frustrated by 40 years of your failure to dominate.

Eric Schansberg said...

Thanks for getting back to me, BB.

I'm sure it'd be difficult to admit that you're much more of a control freaq than me. In any case, maybe you playing poker with me is not such a good idea! ;-)

To your post: Libs side some with Dems and some with GOP'ers-- and more often than not, with neither.

When I ran for Congress, I was the only one of the three candidates who was anti-war and the only candidate who addressed the largest economic issues impacting the working poor and middle class-- typical Democratic issues (supposedly).

Libs are individually-centered and often true-community-centered, rather than the faux-community-centered of the Left. The Left pretends that taking people's money (esp. the working poor and middle class), establishing a lot of regulation, and enforcing govt monopolies (esp. over the inner-city poor)-- somehow results in "community", unselfishness, and other forms of bliss.

Government levels the playing field so all have the same opportunity? You're not paying enough attention. The government almost always benefits all sorts of interest groups at the expense of the common man. And that is what really galls this Libertarian. (A true Progressive would understand that. A Statist would not.)

The Dems may control things for 40 years. Unfortunately, they are not so liberal and hardly progressive. Why is this something for a progressive to celebrate?

With your religious trappings and superstitions toward government, your perceived superiority and pseudo-compassion, I probably can't talk you out of your worship, idolatry, or control-freaqiness. But it's been a smile to chat with you...

Grace and peace to you and yours...

BimBeau said...

Thank you eric for proclaiming me so stupid. Your vacuus twisted use of intermingled fact and fantasy is why Libertarians are at best contrarians.

You can't govern; you can only run bitch-fests. One or a party cannot govern with a Sleeping Beauty policy platform that blends behavior, regardless of whose, with fantasy merely to burnish its view of the world as observed from Cloud CooCoo-Land.

Libertarians have no ability to meet payrolls, create wealth (belay the joke about Economists, wealth & Accountants) nor manage for performance. If I want something from a Libertarian, I'll set up a bitch-fest.

Between religion and Libertarianism
I don't know which screwed you up more. And as much as each has screwed you - it's a BIG MESS!
.